Comments on: Ten Questions for N.T. Wright regarding Catholicism, Justification, and the Church Taylor's Marshall's Next Book & Podcast Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:43:35 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Aaron http://pauliscatholic.com/2009/11/ten-questions-for-n-t-wright-regarding-catholicism-justification-and-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-466 Aaron Tue, 25 May 2010 19:40:03 +0000 http://pauliscatholic.com/?p=439#comment-466 Overall, I feel that N.T. Wright supports what Pope Benedict XVI and Bartholomew, Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, are looking for. That is that the body of Christ must be re-unified as one. So, I would not say that N.T. Wright is supporting the Council of Trent, but he is pointing out that the Protestant Christians are far too divided on issues that do not support Paul's actual views. Obviously, there are less changes necessary amongst the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions, but I think N.T. Wright would argue that there are still changes that are needed to be made irregardless. However, he does seem to see a stronger need for much cleaning up and re-organizing of the Protestant denominations and that many attacks that are made on the Roman Catholic Church are unfounded. Overall, I feel that N.T. Wright supports what Pope Benedict XVI and Bartholomew, Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, are looking for. That is that the body of Christ must be re-unified as one. So, I would not say that N.T. Wright is supporting the Council of Trent, but he is pointing out that the Protestant Christians are far too divided on issues that do not support Paul’s actual views. Obviously, there are less changes necessary amongst the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions, but I think N.T. Wright would argue that there are still changes that are needed to be made irregardless. However, he does seem to see a stronger need for much cleaning up and re-organizing of the Protestant denominations and that many attacks that are made on the Roman Catholic Church are unfounded.

]]> By: Marc http://pauliscatholic.com/2009/11/ten-questions-for-n-t-wright-regarding-catholicism-justification-and-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-458 Marc Wed, 19 May 2010 10:16:26 +0000 http://pauliscatholic.com/?p=439#comment-458 If I may: Q1: Tom would certainly agree with the Protestants, against the Catholics that justification by faith is a status, a state of "rightness" before God. It's a synonym for God accepting us as we are without merit and without infusing goodness into us. It's basically forgiveness. Q2: I think Wright would say that justification by faith is all of God, all of grace but that the process of salvation towards ultimate rescue is certainly synergistic and our participation in Christ's faithful way by the Holy Spirit. Q3: Wright is very explicit in his talks and books: Future Justification is definitely by works and it is Paul (and Jesus) who say this clearly. Q10: Wright would agree with you about Protestantism needing "spring cleaning" - it's his key gripe with Piper, Carson et al. If I may:

Q1: Tom would certainly agree with the Protestants, against the Catholics that justification by faith is a status, a state of “rightness” before God. It’s a synonym for God accepting us as we are without merit and without infusing goodness into us. It’s basically forgiveness.

Q2: I think Wright would say that justification by faith is all of God, all of grace but that the process of salvation towards ultimate rescue is certainly synergistic and our participation in Christ’s faithful way by the Holy Spirit.

Q3: Wright is very explicit in his talks and books: Future Justification is definitely by works and it is Paul (and Jesus) who say this clearly.

Q10: Wright would agree with you about Protestantism needing “spring cleaning” – it’s his key gripe with Piper, Carson et al.

]]> By: Marc http://pauliscatholic.com/2009/11/ten-questions-for-n-t-wright-regarding-catholicism-justification-and-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-457 Marc Wed, 19 May 2010 10:07:56 +0000 http://pauliscatholic.com/?p=439#comment-457 Wright is certainly the theologian who influenced me the most since conversion and he's certainly pushed me away from evangelical fundamentalism and towards Catholic Theology. But I cannot go back to the Catholic Church, there is no way this institution or any other denomination except Jesus' Kingdom Agenda gets my allegiance. Wright is certainly the theologian who influenced me the most since conversion and he’s certainly pushed me away from evangelical fundamentalism and towards Catholic Theology. But I cannot go back to the Catholic Church, there is no way this institution or any other denomination except Jesus’ Kingdom Agenda gets my allegiance.

]]> By: What N.T. Wright and Roman Catholicism Have in Common « Sacramental Piety http://pauliscatholic.com/2009/11/ten-questions-for-n-t-wright-regarding-catholicism-justification-and-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-404 What N.T. Wright and Roman Catholicism Have in Common « Sacramental Piety Mon, 15 Mar 2010 02:12:54 +0000 http://pauliscatholic.com/?p=439#comment-404 [...] That’s why I think this article is important. Again, Taylor Marshall, a really smart guy with some good insights into the nature of Rome-leaning Protestants, provides an interview in which specific questions concerning Wright’s theological compatibility with Rome are put on the table.  I hope you enjoy this as much as I did. Blogroll [...] [...] That’s why I think this article is important. Again, Taylor Marshall, a really smart guy with some good insights into the nature of Rome-leaning Protestants, provides an interview in which specific questions concerning Wright’s theological compatibility with Rome are put on the table.  I hope you enjoy this as much as I did. Blogroll [...]

]]> By: St. Joseph’s Vanguard And Our Lady’s Train » Blog Archive » N.T. Wright Provides Another Reason to Become Catholic http://pauliscatholic.com/2009/11/ten-questions-for-n-t-wright-regarding-catholicism-justification-and-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-399 St. Joseph’s Vanguard And Our Lady’s Train » Blog Archive » N.T. Wright Provides Another Reason to Become Catholic Sun, 07 Mar 2010 19:34:47 +0000 http://pauliscatholic.com/?p=439#comment-399 [...] on St. Paul and this new perspective, see Taylor Marshall’s site. In particular, check out this short article where Wright actually responded to Taylor and then he responded back. [...] [...] on St. Paul and this new perspective, see Taylor Marshall’s site. In particular, check out this short article where Wright actually responded to Taylor and then he responded back. [...]

]]> By: Emil Anton http://pauliscatholic.com/2009/11/ten-questions-for-n-t-wright-regarding-catholicism-justification-and-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-206 Emil Anton Sun, 06 Dec 2009 12:34:59 +0000 http://pauliscatholic.com/?p=439#comment-206 I'll try to help and answer for Wright where I can. Q 1 is a misunderstanding, Wright does not seem to indicate that Paul teaches infused righteousness, instead it is very clear he is only arguing against Piper and the "objective genitive" in the phrase "the righteousness of God" in favor of his interpretation with the "subjective genitive" i.e. God's covenant faithfulness instead of a gift called "the righteousness of God" that the believer receives. Wright is only teasing Piper and saying that if you insist on the objective genitive, you should rather be Catholic, because the verb is "to become" and not "to receive". Both the Augustinian Catholic and the Protestant traditions have taken the genitive as objective. Q 3 confuses terms as well. Wright would not agree that works "increase our righteousness" as Trent says because for Wright righteousness is a legal status and not a moral quality of some sort. But yes, both Wright and Trent teach final justification based on works. However for Wright anyone who believes is assured of his final vindication as well, whereas for Trent one is not allowed to judge prematurely, the Lord searches the hearts. Q 4, well... The whole decree is basically quite an Old Perspective account on "how one is saved". Sure, for a Catholic this takes place in the context of the Church. Baptism is THE KEY for understanding how justification is both about soteriology and ecclesiology. For Wright in WSPRS justification is about how one can know that one is a member of the covenant people of God. That is surely a different question from Trent. For Wright, anyone that believes in Christ is in the covenant family and assured of final justification. For Trent, one needs to hold to the view expressed in the decree itself in order to be justified. I’ll try to help and answer for Wright where I can. Q 1 is a misunderstanding, Wright does not seem to indicate that Paul teaches infused righteousness, instead it is very clear he is only arguing against Piper and the “objective genitive” in the phrase “the righteousness of God” in favor of his interpretation with the “subjective genitive” i.e. God’s covenant faithfulness instead of a gift called “the righteousness of God” that the believer receives. Wright is only teasing Piper and saying that if you insist on the objective genitive, you should rather be Catholic, because the verb is “to become” and not “to receive”. Both the Augustinian Catholic and the Protestant traditions have taken the genitive as objective.

Q 3 confuses terms as well. Wright would not agree that works “increase our righteousness” as Trent says because for Wright righteousness is a legal status and not a moral quality of some sort. But yes, both Wright and Trent teach final justification based on works. However for Wright anyone who believes is assured of his final vindication as well, whereas for Trent one is not allowed to judge prematurely, the Lord searches the hearts.

Q 4, well… The whole decree is basically quite an Old Perspective account on “how one is saved”. Sure, for a Catholic this takes place in the context of the Church. Baptism is THE KEY for understanding how justification is both about soteriology and ecclesiology. For Wright in WSPRS justification is about how one can know that one is a member of the covenant people of God. That is surely a different question from Trent. For Wright, anyone that believes in Christ is in the covenant family and assured of final justification. For Trent, one needs to hold to the view expressed in the decree itself in order to be justified.

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